Posts by Island Man

40

What is Your Brainwashing IQ ? Take the Quiz

by Finkelstein in

so how much do you understand about brainwashing, its application and effects ?

essentially lures people into its grasps and then brainwashes them for exploitation and manipulative purposes by using mental indoctrination techniques.. here's a quick quiz to take to answer some of these questions.

http://voicesfordignity.com/brainwashing-iq/.

Island Man

I would be willing to bet that you would have a hard time getting a JW to even take this test.

Well, I'm going to try:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150527183221AALWJYz

30

Some common words that are applicable in practical use with the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization

by Finkelstein in

i'll start the ball rolling .... .

coercive.

pretentious.

Island Man

Hypocritical

Propagandistic

Hubristic

Fallacious

Orwellian

Manipulative

Secretive

Bigoted

22

1919 Doctrine no longer exists? (Today's Watchtower Study)

by FusionTheism in

quote from today's watchtower study article that's being studied at the halls (march 15, 2015, page 24):.

"understanding the illustration of the talents".

"when the master rewards the slaves.".

Island Man

No, the date still exists. What has changed is their claims of what happened in that year.

It was formerly claimed that Jesus made the initial appointment of the FDS in the 1st century and appointed them over all his belongings in 1919. Now it is claimed that Jesus made his initial appointment of the FDS in 1919 and will appoint them over all his belongings when he returns in the future during the great tribulation.

23

Why BOGUS PREDICTIONS and CHANGEABLE TEACHINGS only strengthen JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

by TerryWalstrom in

today's jw knows less about the history of the watchtower religion than ever before.. there is no need to know.

only the present moment of new light has meaning.. there are too many enemies surrounding jw's to risk learning something faith-weakening.. such as facts.

the watchtower religion (jehovah's witnesses) has been 'getting away with it' since 1874.. setting dates built on false chronology, pyramidology, slanted quotations about world events, and misrepresenting their own authority, (channel of jehovah) is a profitable enterprise for the watchtower org.. how do we know they 'get away with it'?.

Island Man

FusionTheism: It makes no sense to simultaneously say that the Society doesn't want the average JW to know about the problems of the past Society, and THEN at the same time to say that the Society is intentionally telling these JWs about these problems, making them aware of them

This is a tactic used by shrewd politicians. In an attempt to take the sting out of a shocking expose that he knows will inevitably come, a shrewd politician might preempt the breaking of the news by mentioning the incident, carefully spinning it to portray himself as humble and transparent while at the same time giving the impression that it isn't a very big deal by using euphemisms.

When he does this, he has already introduced the public to the issue - on his terms - and prepares the way to categorize any future exposes on the issue by his critics as a vindictive, exaggerated attack bringing up an issue that he has already spoken about openly. He styles himself as the humble, honest man who publicly bared his past fault and is now being victimized by vindictive and slanderous critics, out to sensationalize the issue and destroy his character.

29

Getting married when you are spiritually out

by 1tMakesNoSence in

i met this amazing girl about 6years ago at my local congregation.

i was 100% in back then.

about 3years ago i woke up spiritually and kept it undercover till a few months ago.. this girl is still very in (but she doesnt really do the things a reaaal jw should do.

Island Man

As long as she is still mentally in there is always the risk that she will one day become zealous and think she is helping you by outing you to the elders.

4

A possible new and disturbing dynamic of control in JW families.

by Island Man in

we all know that young children are very impressionable and love cartoons.

lately, watchtower seems to be using caleb and sophia to indoctrinate young children into becoming zealous jw cultists.. what if this largely succeeds - at least while the children are still young?

what effect could/would this have on family dynamics, specifically, the the parent-child relationship?.

Island Man

We all know that young children are very impressionable and love cartoons. Lately, Watchtower seems to be using Caleb and Sophia to indoctrinate young children into becoming zealous JW cultists.

What if this largely succeeds - at least while the children are still young? What effect could/would this have on family dynamics, specifically, the the parent-child relationship?

Think of a child who has seen and internalized the infamous ice-cream video. What would she think about her parent and say to her parent who she sees buying an unnecessary item, say a new pair of shades, a watch, a bracelet, etc?

"Mommy, that money should go to support the world-wide work! Isn't that more important?"

Imagine JW households with parents who are put in the position of being psychologically pressured by their Watchtower indoctrinated children to be good JWs! Caleb and Sophia will make parenting more difficult for more moderate JW parents. Parents will feel pressured to live as good, model JWs at home to meet the expectations created in the minds of their children who watch Caleb and Sophia.

88

Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

by FusionTheism in

jw
friends

i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

Island Man

"If you condemn the Society for NOT changing, but then you also condemn them when they DO change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the Society to ever want to change for the better?"

1 The Society's biggest problem is its lack of genuine humility - the very arrogant, grandiose claims it makes about itself without tangible supporting evidence and despite a litany of evidence to the contrary. Those who lift themselves on a pedestal, making extraordinary claims about themselves are inviting scrutiny and should be man enough to accept it instead of seeking to demonize and censor those who give it through the use of manipulative propaganda and shunning. To whom much is given much is expected in return. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and invite extraordinary scrutiny.

2 If The Society would just humbly come clean and apologize honestly and directly for all its wrongs and cease its attitude of arrogance and manipulation based on its bogus claims of divine authority - self-appointed authority - and allow JWs the freedom of conscience to hold different opinions from the Society on matters not clearly stated in scripture, then people would tend to be more forgiving of the society. The great scrutiny will also die down since they'll no longer be making arrogant unsubstantiated claims of special divine appointment.

3 it is an ongoing insult and torment to ex-JWs to see The Society changing past teachings over which some were disfellowshipped for disagreeing with, and no apology is given to them and their status as disfellowshipped is not reversed. It is an insult to see an organization behaving as if it is infallible and practically demanding that it be treated as infallible while teaching utter nonsense and demonizing those who disagree.

4 The changes that Watchtower makes are often not born out of genuine love for truth but out of mere organizational expediency. Many JWs have written to the Society logically and scripturally demonstrating the falsehood of their teachings and yet they continue for years and decades with the false teachings - because the truth would not serve their interests at that time. Do you think Watchower is unaware that 607 BCE is false? They know it's false! Carl Johnson wrote a book logically showing its false and sent them a copy. They are aware that its false but its not in their organizational interest to change it. Only when a teaching reaches the point of being untenable does the society actually move to change it. They are not lovers of truth. They are lovers of the organization and the power it gives them.

5 So we criticize them when they don't change because the lack of change is due to their loyalty to the interest of the organization rather than their loyalty to the truth. And we criticize them when they do change because the changes are also prompted by loyalty the interest of the organization rather than loyalty to the truth. Also the changes prove that they don't deserve the treatment as a special, unchallengable, spirit directed authority on truth that they seek to manipulate JWs into giving them.

"Also, what does that attitude look like to current Witnesses who are having doubts?
It probably looks to them like the Society has been correct in the way they describe apostates as bitter complainers who are never happy with anything the Society does."

6 Yes, many apostates are bitter complainers - justifiably so! The society is essentially taking a symptom of discovering that you've been deceived and manipulated (becoming bitter) and attaching to it the connotation of being irrelevant/dishonest then using this connotation to groom JWs into dismissing apostates without examining the substantive point they're making. Watchtower is using the propaganda technique of name calling and the logical fallacy of ad hominem. It is analogous to a pedophile grooming his would-be victim by telling him/her that society is cruel and does not understand him (the pedophile) and hates him and wants to see him locked up just because he likes little children and wants to give them love; and for this reason he tells his would-be victim not to tell other adults about their conversations and conduct in private.

For example:
* "The Society finds crazy Types and Antitypes in everything, where it doesn't exist. Way too many deep layers of nonsense being taught."
* (After the New Light): "The Society is way too simplistic and dumbed down. What happened to the deep study?"

7 Nonsense! Yes the types and antitypes are indeed nonsensical and have been criticized as such by ex-JWs. But the comments about the society being dumbed down has nothing to do with that. The criticism of the new light abandonment of types and anti-types has nothing to do with simplicity and everything to do with hypocrisy. They claim to be abandoning the type anti-type approach while continuing in it for their 1914 teaching.

And when they recently have admitted to errors and say they've been wrong in big ways in the past, some accuse them of having some secret conspiracy theory motive behind it.

8 What conspiracy theory motive? What are you talking about? And they have never unreservedly apologized for the ills caused by their past errors. As for admitting their past errors: haven't you noticed how when they speak of them they avoid using direct words like "false", "error", "wrong", etc in preference for far more diplomatic and euphemistic words and language? It's a hallmark of their lack of true humility. Even when purporting to admit they were wrong they are unwilling to actually say that they were wrong!

To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

See 2 above.

7

The Other Sheep and the Little Flock -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

if you look at the context of the scriptures, you'll see that the "little flock" jesus was going to give the kingdom to (luke 12:32) are the leaders in the congregations, the ones who faithfully serve his sheep, beginning with the apostles and original jewish believers.. in addition, the "other sheep" who would be brought into the congregation later, given the context in the gospel of john, would be the gentile (non-jewish) christians.

(see john 12:20-32).

nothing in these scriptures says anything about an earthly hope for the other sheep and a heavenly hope for the little flock.. that is going beyond what is written..

Island Man

I agree with you on the identity of the "other sheep" being gentile christians.

However, I think that when Jesus used the expression "little flock" he was referring specifically to his then present 12 (or 11) apostles. 12 people out of a nation of millions truly is a little flock. Although large crowds followed Jesus and he at one time had upwards of 70 disciples, it was the very little flock of 12 that faithfully stuck with him up until his arrest. The apostles are given the most prominent inheritance in the kingdom. (Matthew 19:28; Revelation 21:14) After Jesus, the highest authority in the kingdom will be the apostles. In this sense they are given the kingdom.

I don't think "little flock" refers to all the leaders in the congregations down to our time because the context shows that Jesus was clearly speaking to those present with him at the time. He was calling them the "little flock". Thus little flock simply refers to his close disciples/apostles highlighting the fact that they were a small group. In contrast, Jesus clearly indicated that the "other sheep" was a future group which wasn't present when he spoke about them. He used the future tense and indicated they were not then present ("not of this fold")

Often, the simplest explanation that fits the context is the correct one and there is no need to be reading too much into what Jesus says unless the context indicates that he was speaking in parables.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

Island Man

steve2: As a Witness, I began dating a very marriageable man . . .
My sensitively-inclined boyfriend . . . I was stunned, as was my husband. . .

steve2, you're a woman?! And all this time I was thinking you're a man! lol

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

Island Man

The deceitful use of misquotes and fallacious logic in the Evolution book.